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Archives des forums MMO/MMORPG > Shadowbane > SB - L'Assemblée d'Aerynth > News du jour!
News du jour!
Par Evildeus le 21/12/2001 à 10:44:06 (#593348)
- Si vous etes à Austin Texas le 12/01/2002, gardez votre journée pour aller voir SB et prenez votre invitation à ce mail: chrism@ubisoft.com et allez lire la news ICI
-Un thread interessant sur le monde de Shadowbane et plus particulièrement sur la stabilité géopolitique du monde. Guerre totale? Guerres régionales? Escarmouches? Paix continuelle? C'est à lire ici
2/3 posts du lien sur la géopolitique en anglais (désolé) interessants
Par Evildeus le 21/12/2001 à 14:12:54 (#593952)
Everyone seems to think shadowbane is about GvG, about building up your TOL and destroying other cities. This may be WP's intent, but they are going to be sadly dissappointed by their peaceful players. Within a few months every shard will be mired in a web of peaceful alliances, the big guilds just don't have the will to fight.
A large guild has ties to other games, you cannot attack guild A when you are allied with it in AC or EQ even if it makes sense in the context of SB.
Worse still, the typical o.O is more concerned about his making sure his main character keeps his fancy loot than about anything else. Once he builds a city, that city will start to be his "main" as well as his home. He won't risk it anymore than himself.
Typically players get bored with the peaceful life in time and make up a secondary just-fo-fun character (who joins a guild and then goes PK). An o.O doesn't play his main character for fun, he plays it to level and collect junk.
This secondary character is the only one who will be capable of war (since he is willing to risk it) and they will sort of collect in a pseudo-PK-city full of secondary characters of like just-for-fun mind. Of course, the o.O's can't allow a PK city so they will all cement their alliances in an attack upon this PK city. When the big attack finally starts everyone is going to log off with his secondary PK char and log on with his main o.O character and find that the siege is pretty easy (since all the defenders are now the attackers).
This will be a sort of ceremonial--see we are playing SB right--kind of siege that will make all the o.O's feel like they are playing for real. Sad, but all too true. There just won't be any serious wars between guilds staffed with dedicated main characters.
All we have left then, is the age old struggle between a few PKs who are real and a vast sea of o.Os. Nothing new here in SB, except for once you can kill anyone anywhere just like in those glorious Dread Lord days.
All this rant and rave about Accountability is so much noise, so what if you are at a dissadvantage stat-wise as a PK (you tie to a GM TOL). You still gang up and whack the weaker members just like you always have and then run when a heard of o.Os shows up to hunt you down.
SB will be just like other games, because the people who play it don't have the nerve to make all-out-war on eachother. There is a cultural fixation in o.O land against killing other players, and they just won't be able to overcome it in SB.
yours
Og
suite
Par Evildeus le 21/12/2001 à 15:59:37 (#594422)
Not because I thought it was a bad post, it was just a scenario that I never really considered before. Let me tell you why I agree and disagree with your thoughts. The part I do agree with - is the possability of a scenario like this occuring. An enlightened and intelligent city leader would do well to play on the defensive, and reap the rewards of a thriving economy. War is risky. War is a large expense. Why tap resources into being agressive? Especially when you can dump all that money into the best shops, guardsmens, hirelings, and buildings to build that virtual utopian city that overlooks the sea, and smells nice, and no one lives in poverty, and the masses were content. Who wouldn't want that?!
Hehe
While these numbers are not accurate by any means, I will use them to make a point. And here is where I disagree with you. Lets say Continent Ashen has all the best Dungeons for the higher level characters. The money floweth like honey from this mass of land. This land can support... lets say 25 trees of life. Now 500 Guilds want at least one of those 25 spots. And they are not content to pay the taxes and be at the sufference of some arrogant lord and little guilded lordlings who control the city's guards, and thinks that they are the 'betters'. On the best continent with the best locations, lets assume that the Darwinist win the day and those spots are held by the top guilds and the top guild leaders in the game.
What is the one thing that drives the best and most competive groups is gaming? Ambition and dedication are factors. Pride is often another. But the one thing they most often have in common - is ego. The Guild with the most wins. The scenario of a 100 way tie doesn't seem very likely. Especially with Feature Characters, Gods, maybe Powerful Demons causing trouble in the game's alliance systems - or feeding petty hatreds. And when you have a massive Map of the world that proclaims your status to the entire MMORPG genre, and having that city "makes you a player in the big game" and the guy with the most cities is the guy who is on the official website everyday and is attended to by Dieties, Feature Characters, and all kinds of cool people.... It's just too bad their can only be one Number 1. Kinda sucks for everyone else huh?
Human nature.
All the sudden, the once ripe dungeons don't dish out the gold that they once did. Gold starts getting tight. Large groups of players from competing guilds start bumping into each other every hour for the same spawns and dungeons. City maintenance costs start eating severely into your ability to keep it up and running. Tempers are high. And some punk just called your guild leader a wuss after he stole 5 of your kills.
*BOOM!! Its all over now!*
I have seen guilds foam at the mouth and flame on boards and then go to war for a perceived kill steal or train in EQ. I have seen groups just lose it and pk everyone in sight because they got bored, or didn't like the board troll they finally saw in game. I have seen declared wars because someone said their name sounded 'ghey". I have even seen some guilds actually destroy themselves by warring a more powerful group and disband because of their own hatred against a couple of jerk pks. I have seen guilds war over guild names, or guild colors, or guild symbols. Hell, the guild Ashen and I founded in UO had a similar war. I hated a pack lowlifes so badly that we went to war on some d00ds and we got our butts kicked so hard that we couldn't even login without being killed instantly - anytime - 24 hours a day 7 days a week and that same slaughter went on for 4 weeks straight until we had about 12 members left, and they hadn't even logged in for over a weak, and I actually walked naked (over about 20 of my own corpses) and offered up my unconditional surrender.
And the 12 of us left licked our wounds and hid out for at least a month after that. Man, that was stupid. I should have known better, but when that anger hits you and all you see are red and white dots flashing in front of your monitor at a pack of fools who think they are 'hard-core' and everyone is afraid of them... well, its easier to be stupid than it is to be calm and patient. So we decided to attack them and teach them a lesson... hehe! Ouch, that still bites, and that was four years ago.
Anyway, the point of all that is this "Never underestimate the ability of a guild leader or a group of players who think they have some skill - to be stupid". And never for once, think that some guilds won't mind being disbanded and losing everything if, as a direct consequence, their hated enemy likewise goes down by the next big dawg in the food chain as a result of their martying themselves in war. The griefing martyr! As long as I destroy you, who cares if I get destroyed also? I still win =)
I know, because I am stupid all the time in these games. I like players to bow and scrape when I walk by... and to call me sir, and if they don't - I have a real and very serious itch to kill them, and once I kill them I want to visit their boards and talk a little smack. And then Im having fun! Then I want to kill his buddies... and then I make it look like they started it! And then my allies want their blood too!
Or, maybe another guildmember from a powerful guild walks by me and hes acting like Im supposed to bow and scrape to him - hah! And if the mood is right.. somone is gonna get peekayed.
But the final reason I think Shadowbane will be full of conflict and change (<<sounds like a history book) is because "it can" be. City's will siege other cities because "they can". The same reason lots of players are jerks, pks, roleplayers, heroes, or villains - is because they can be. If players can do it, they will. Simple as that. Not all players will, but some will. Some will siege just because they can, some will pk because they can, and wars will be fought, won, and lost because they can. And true, it could be risky. Heroes are never made by playing it safe.
Glory isn't won - nor is fame spread by a guild's ability to farm gold from a spawn. And we don't have a Ms. and Mr. Congeniality award for the friendliest guild.
I just have a hard time imagining a Shadowbane that resembles Mr. Rogers, when it will probably be closer to Saving Private Ryan.
Vosx
(Ubi Soft)
Par Evildeus le 21/12/2001 à 16:48:55 (#594573)
"I don't know Vosx...even you seem to think that it is just stupid and impulsive to have a major war in SB."
ehhhhhhh, well I wouldn't go that far. I think circumstances lead certain players to make bad decisions. I know, because I have been there and consider myself a pretty sharp guy in these matters. Some groups will take risks that a rational person would not. War is risky. Some will use that power unwisely, probably more than a few will break themselves against the walls of a defenders castle. In a sense, what I mean by that is that just because life is good, money is rolling in, and happiness and good will towards men and elf alike seem to be in serious fashion - that someone will go "to hell with the good life, lets go war those wussies!".
War is going to be necassary. I think it will be hard to avoid directly, or if your lucky - being pulled in indirectly. The siege, is the weapon of mass destruction in Shadowbane. Its the Ace of Spades. The Big Stick. Sometimes, war will be the only way a city can live in peace.
"I think the overall dynamic may very well be just what Og has suggested: lots of pointless bickering and no real battles where the outcome will make much difference to the balance of power."
Forgive me... I embellish a little too much here. But I am at home so sue me.
I disagree. Cities can certainly generate wealth, but they also cost wealth - not just for buildings, but for maintenance of those buildings. Lets for the sake of argument, say that the "siege" just isn't something people want to resort too. Now picture a dungeon thats located within the range of two cities, a necessary gold source for both cities and their guilds and citezens. Meridianville are a bunch of Care Bears - they spend all their time on defenses, and refuse to be goaded into conflict. They like the finer things in life: the arts, the theatre, and picking flowers. They are rich, and they really don't care about City Belthior, their neighbors. They are untouchable. After all, they make lots of cash, and their city is one of the better ones in the region. They have important trading contacts with other cities, but are kind of far away which is why they make a decent profit. Their guards and walls are some of the best. Anyone who would siege them is a fool!
Enter Belthioropolis, the neighbor. They aren't as good at sitting in the dungeon 12 hours a day and squeezing the money out of the mobs as Meridianites, their shops aren't as advanced as in Meridianville, so when they head that way to buy the advanced armor and weapons, they get ripped off by high prices. And they can't make decent cash because the Meridopes take all the good spawns and cheerily go about their merry way. And this sucks. Because Emporer Belthior wants a new Keep for his fourth redheaded mistress, but sieging Meridianville is too dangerous, and he'd probably lose anyway to those damn 7th Rank guards and upgraded walls and that massive tree of life.
The one thing his Emminence of All that is Mighty Emporer Belthior is, (other than greedy), is cunning. He can't defeat Meridianville in a one on one seige, and he is deathly afraid of the sneaky Dread Flamers, who constantly prowl along his borders sniffing at his defenses. A siege might instigate his nemesis Dreadflame to siege him! Besides, it costs too much and Emporer Belthior is afterall, a very thrifty man, his subordinates call him cheap - but not too loudly of course. So what he decides to do is just starve out the Meridianites, and cause them to surrender - or be so weak that a siege would be quick and easy.
His Mightiness of Greatness and Tranquility, Belthior, summons his trusty flunky - the feared starter of fires, and twiddler of torches, General "Sherman" Chewie to go burn em down and starve them out. So Chewie sends in his boys. The first thing they do is kill any Meridianite that tries to enter the dungeon. Since Meridianites are peaceful, they don't want to war so they board up their castle an wait for a siege. THey are now invincable. The Belthiornians start making "all" the cash now from the dungeon, and decide to take matters further. They surround the city of Meridianville and kill any merchant, or citezen, that tries to enter or leave. But they don't siege! All of a sudden, their is zero moneycoming in to Meridianville. Business is moving on to richer pastures, and the citezens who arent a member of the ruling guild are leaving too. After a time, other cities are starting to pick up some nice gold from the customers who can't get to Meridianville. The peaceful Meridopes just don't know what to do. They aren't fighters! Belthior wants the city and won't be paid off.
If things continue... the Meridianites will run low on money, manpower, or both. Their morale is kaput - they can't level anymore, and they are just fussy about it, even singing and holding hands doesn't help. As the money flow shifts, Belthior gets stronger and stronger while Meridian gets weaker and weaker. Maybe that cash buys Mercs, maybe he gets that siege ready......
(For all of you reading all this long stuff - sorry, Ill end it...)
-------------------
Anyway, the point is that a city is not self sufficient. It needs both citezens, and money. For people to have money, or make money is to feel secure - that they wont lose what they have to a group of combatants waiting on the fringe.
A smart leader would have an army, and would strike hard and fast on any group who tries to choke off or monopolize a key strategic point like a dungeon. A totally defensive city, is a target. Just because someone does not siege, does not mean they cannot defeat you. They can.
All power in Shadowbane will radiate from the cities. They are the level centers, training centers, goods and services, and banks, guildhalls etc etc. Those who have them must run them well or be overthrown from within, or taken over by siege, or starved out by hostile or jealous neighbors. Running a city effectively will be difficult, the politics will be difficult, sharing resources with different groups will be difficult.
And to the point of Balance of Power - you discount the fictional aspects of the game. Are humans up? The elves? The Irekei on a rampage? What promises are being offered to them? Maybe an ancient Talisman of the Dragon can be rumored to be in your vaults, and by your defeat in a siege a new King of the Irekei can be crowned. What role will the gods play?
Not too mention good and evil. Guilds will band together, some will gun for you and others will not. Guilds who don't have cities may try and grab yours. City owners will be the Tsars of Shadowbane. Who knows when the masses may rise up and overthow you? Its not impossible.
And lastly, with insurance, a loser in a siege would lose maybe 10% of his worth, and a name, (and the city) but they would not be totally out of the game. It could set them back a while, but all things considered... its just not a lot of fun bashing monsters all damn day ;)
Addendum:
What I am getting at, is that the risks aren't so great, that losing will end your game. It will set you back, but it can be overcome. The war and the battles are whar unites many of the fans together. This opportunity to experience high fantasy in a form that it was meant for - risks, danger, excitement, loss, and glorious victories.
Will their be a new High King?
Who will find Shadowbane?
Will the Deathless Empire re-emerge?
Will the Church and the Temple come to real and open war?
What about the Centaurs?
And that's not even including the Gods.
And that's not even thinking about whats behind the Chaos Gates.
The idea is to promote conflict, provide reasons for it, make it fun and give everyone a reason to login everyday. Not because you want that bubble of experience, but because epic events are ongoing and this time "maybe you" will be the deciding factor, the hero - the General your own version of Pickets Charge, or the Ambassador who finally negotiates peace. Whats going to happen tomorrow?
Who knows. But there is more to this than logging in, going to point a, level, go to paint b and sell, answer a tell, repeat. Thats not how its supposed to be, and we won't let it get that way.
Did Cambruin have an Heir?
LOL! I mean, c'mon people. Lets not forget about the good stuff. The conspiracy theories, the what-ifs, the could-bes.
Wheres the damn traitor? And who was the traitor? Is someone protecting this secret?
Its easy to get bogged down in the details and theories of game mechanics. And like J said, we have common experiences but each game is different. Shadowbane is certainly no exception. But one way we are different, is that your actions will affect the world, and players, guilds, and the common adventurer will have visiable impacts on what takes place.
This is your story. History will be written one day at a time in Shadowbane, it won't be written in a back room of an office, it will be recorded from the words, deeds, and actions of the players.
Count on it.
Vosx
(Ubi Soft)
Par Dreadskulo le 21/12/2001 à 20:00:59 (#595509)
En tout cas ca m a bien fait marrer de lire ces posts .....je sens que va y avoir des moments poilants en perspective
Par Evildeus le 26/12/2001 à 11:26:43 (#612018)
Bon, si vous aimez Shadowbane, si vous l'attendez tous si vous etes pret à faire 3 clicks, alors allez voter ici.
Par Dreadskulo le 26/12/2001 à 15:26:44 (#613145)
Mais bordel ......dur de lutter contre War 3 :rolleyes:
Par Evildeus le 26/12/2001 à 17:15:21 (#613647)
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